drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  45

  Conspiracy Nuts Are Like Rabid JWs

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  once they decide to believe or not believe something---that's it.

  no evidence, no logic, no proof will change them.

  what a waste!.

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  drew sagan

  Conspiracy theories still have the same objectives of many other well established things in our society (mainly religion, but philosohpy as well). They try to explain the evil in this world, why it is here, who is behind it, ect. The Watchtower has taken the path of conspiracy a number of times (even publishing an article that said there was a 'world conspiracy against the truth"). In the end JWs can't make up their mind if they are just some oddball protestants or full fledged conspiracy theorists. They end up being an bizzare mix of the two.

  Remember, Rutherford published a book that said Prohibition was a conspiracy of the devil!
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  30

  Less meetings= ?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do less meetings each week =.

  less indoctrination=.

  the wt loses its grip?.

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  drew sagan

  I would like to add that I actually feel it's the style and conent of the meetings and not the frequency which is the greatest obsticle to the Watchtower.

  The format is very dated and ineffective at getting people engaged and excited. It follows ideas about the world that go back as far as the 1950's (one example is their continued dependence on "teaching" people how to witness door to door, an ineffective and out of date activity in itself).

  The music is not engaging, and the only services offered are those that cater to adults. Young adults, youth, and children are not given much and neither are women for that matter. The meetings prop up the men who are late 20's and older, and basically sends everybody else to the back of the bus.

  It's this non inclusive nature of their services that I feel is the biggest challenge they face. Without changing this they will most likely suffer with membership growth no matter what.
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  30

  Less meetings= ?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do less meetings each week =.

  less indoctrination=.

  the wt loses its grip?.

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  drew sagan

  Everybody I knew inside the WT didn't keep up with all of their readings, but did something. Additinally, although they didn't keep up, they felt extremely guilty for doing so. It is that guilt that I feel is key. As missinglink pointed out, there is even the possibility for more guilt being passed around.

  I've known people who have stayed away from meetings for years and have never 'loosened the bonds'. The eaiser it is to be JW, the harder it is to discard it IMO.
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  30

  Less meetings= ?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do less meetings each week =.

  less indoctrination=.

  the wt loses its grip?.

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  drew sagan

  Not at all. The amount of material a JW must keep up with is still more than most people have time for. I know so many JWs that were months behind on reading all those magazines, and had very little time for all the meetings. This gives them the opportunity to be a bit more "caught up" with their weekly JW activities (and possibly boost moral, but most likely not by much).

  The grip is still tight. Two meetings a week plus field service is three structured activities per week the JW is required to attend in addition to personal reading, not to mention the extra time those in leadership roles have to give.
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  15

  Wondering.....

  by lavendar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  our son became involved with the jws about 4 years ago, due to his jw wife (they married before she was baptized).

  i don't believe our son is baptized yet.

  i was wondering....if a person is not baptized yet, do the elders still put pressure on the person to do more, ie field service, talks, etc.

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  drew sagan

  The pressure to "take the dunk" will always be there. It will come from any JWs he comes in contact with. Additinally, if he actually believes the Watchtowers message and theology there is a fair chance he will actually feel as if he has to do more.

  I think that is the main thing you should think about. Does he really buy into what the religion is selling him? My father in law has gone to meetings (and even field service) but never really enjoyed it. He simply did it because his wife was very involved and persuaded him. He did have some genuine interest for a while, but eventually that went away. Now he participates every once and a while but it is on his own terms.
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  14

  Time to go back to the JWs

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after being a bitter, pathetic, back stabbing, ignorant, evil apostate i have seen the errors of my ways.

  i need to go back to jehovah's loving arrangment.. please come with me or you will be destroyed.

  i fear for all of you..

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  drew sagan

  The past is the past AK-Jeff, Jehovah is waiting. Time to get on the ark before it is too late. You belong with Jehovah's people.

  Quirky1, the Ark has may beverages. Taste and see that Jehovah is good.
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  14

  Time to go back to the JWs

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after being a bitter, pathetic, back stabbing, ignorant, evil apostate i have seen the errors of my ways.

  i need to go back to jehovah's loving arrangment.. please come with me or you will be destroyed.

  i fear for all of you..

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  drew sagan

  After being a bitter, pathetic, back stabbing, ignorant, evil apostate I have seen the errors of my ways. I need to go back to Jehovah's loving arrangment.

  Please come with me or you will be destroyed. I fear for all of you.
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  16

  DF attending Memorial

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what happens if a df person attends memorial service?.

  will they be treated badly?.

  would they be snubbed?.

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  drew sagan

  They can go. I would assume that nobody would talk to them (you may get a smile of recognition), but an Elder may ask if they want a visit or something like that. They are the only ones "approved" to talk with a DF person. I would be very surprised if they didn't use that opportunity to try and set something up where they can encouage you towards reinstatement.
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  9

  Spirituality WT style: it's all business

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  isn't it funny to think the wt claims to have anything to do with spirituality?

  i mean, here is a business that measures how "spiritual" you are by the number of hours you spend each month serving the corporation.

  its most respected "spiritual" leaders have business titles like "circuit overseers" and "district overseers".

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  drew sagan

  I said as much to an elder I knew during my exit.

  The response I recieved was rather frustrating, which is to be expected. Basically he stated that even though some congregations act this way, it is not the way they should be acting. Our conversation was mainly focused on appointments (MS, Elder), and how some BOE discriminated against people who did not "do enough" of the right activity, even though they may be excellent in other areas.

  He gave me an example of how his own BOE broke against this trend.

  The facts he presented (as typical of most conversations with JWs) was merely anectodal. The social atmosphere of the JWs is cultured by the magaizes. While there is no "official" policy that states everybody should have the same attitudes, the outcome is there. Because the WTS bangs into peoples heads that certain forms of activity are required and essential (and subsequently, not done by "lazy" and "selfish" people), an atmosphere is created where the members link the two ideas togeather. e.g. "Jim is lazy because he does not do enought preaching".

  But this cynical atmosphere where structured activity is equal to "spiritual growth" is an outcome, and therefor harder to document and prove.
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  47

  How do you answer "you research just to criticize"?

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  minimus' thread about research got me to thinking about a friend who recently accused me of researching just to purposely find something wrong so i could justify my actions (of becoming inactive).. how would you answer this?.

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  drew sagan

  Doesn't the watchtower research to criticize? Can anyone show me even one watchtower publication in the last 100 years that doesn't in some way slam other religions, governments, businesses, the media, the UN, music, television, the internet, "worldly" people, sex, beards, hairstyles, education, the medical profession, or anything else?

  Yes, but you're forgetting a major component of JW belief, namely the narritave that surrounds the history of the group. JWs don't just feel that they have done research that proves certain things true. They believe the leadership has been ordained by God in fullfillment of Bible prophecy to do so. Because of this, the research of the Watchtower is part of a divine mission of God. YOURS IS NOT. God didn't appoint you to do research, he appoint the WT.